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Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher - April 6, 2001

Guests on this program were:
Marilyn Manson
Daril W.
Kathy R.
Catherine S.

Bill: Hi, teens.
Nuts Johnson here.
I'm sure you all realize this week a new magazine hit the stands.
It's "Rosie" --
joining --

[ Light laughter ]

The "O" magazine, Oprah.
Rosie and Oprah both have their own magazines.
And I thought to myself, "Hey, I have a talk show.
I talk to people.
I have an easy-to-remember short name." That's why this week, I'm introducing "Bill."
[ Cheers and applause ]

Now please --

[ Applause ]

My friend said to me, "Bill, isn't it just a little egotistical to have a magazine about yourself?" Please, it is not about ego.
It's about sharing my philosophy.

[ Light laughter ]

You know, with all those wonderful people in Missouri or wherever.
Anyway, each issue of "Bill" starts with a helpful, empowering quote from me.
Here's the first one --
"Behind every great woman is a man --
[ Light laughter ]

if he's doing it right."
[ Cheers and applause ]

Good stuff.
After the quote in the magazine --
so that you don't ever have to really think on your own or show your own taste --
there's a list of books you must read.
We all must read so that we can grow as individuals.

[ Light laughter ]

It's not about ego.
Now let's look at some of the articles.
Right here on the cover, "Bill Maher's Most Candid Interview Ever," by Bill Maher.

[ Light laughter ]

I really got me to open up.

[ Light laughter ]

"Ten Sure-Fire Sex Tricks That Will Leave Me Begging For More."
[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers ]

Take my quiz, "Are you a pain in my ass?"
[ Laughter ]

"Commercial breaks --
your private time."
[ Light laughter ]

"Is your penis too big?"
[ Light laughter ]

[ Cheers ]

And then, you open it up --
look at some of these things, the advice column, "Ask Bill and his people will get back to you."
[ Light laughter ]

"Home Decorating --
applause signs in the bedroom." Yeah.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Oh, here's one of those scratch-and-sniff cards for a new fragrance.
It's called, "Recession," by George Bush.

[ Light laughter ]

I love these articles in here.
"Jack Daniels --
Not Just for Breakfast Any More."
[ Cheers and applause ]

Wait a second.
"How to Pretend You're Not a Hollywood Phony."
[ Light laughter ]

"Tour the Homes of Stars I've Insulted."
[ Laughter ]

"Bill Exposes the Myth of the So-Called Female Orgasm."
[ Cheers ]

"How to Tell if You're Cheating."
[ Light laughter ]

Travel --
this magazine has everything --
travel --
"My Five Favorite Vacation Hideaways." Like I'm going to tell you people.

[ Laughter ]

And here's my favorite --
"How to Tell if Your President's an Idiot." Hint --
he's living in the White House.

[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

And because this is already such a hit, next week we introduce --

[ Bill chuckles ]

"Teen Bill"
[ Cheers and applause ]

Ladies and gentlemen, the star of "Politically Incorrect" --
Bill Maher!
[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: All right.
I don't know where his album is --

[ Sustained applause ]

but I was listening to it today.

[ Bill chuckles ]

Please, I'm excited, too.
Because I'm a big fan of this guy.
His new record is called "Holywood." Marilyn Manson, ladies and gentlemen.

[ Roaring cheers and applause ]

How you doing? Okay.

[ Sustained applause ]

She is a movie actress, MTV talk show host and Eminem's favorite fiery comedienne --
Kathy R., ladies and gentlemen!
[ Cheers and applause ]

Kathy: The teens love me.

Bill: They do.
She is a 16-year-old junior at New York's Hunter College High School and one of "Teen People"'s new teamers --
Catherine S.

[ Cheers and applause ]

How you doing?

Catherine: Fine.
Thank you very much.

Bill: Did I say that wrong?

Catherine: Yes.

Bill: Is it "*****"?

Catherine: Yes.

Bill: I'm sorry, "*****." I said it wrong.
Okay, he's a senior at Hoover high school in San Diego and President of its african-american student union --
Daril W.! Daril.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: Hey.
How ya doing? Nice to see you.

[ Applause ]

Manson, where's your record? I know it's available.
I was listening to it today.

Marilyn: I don't know.

Bill: And it's terrific.
It took --

Marilyn: Thank you, but --

Bill: Yeah.

Marilyn: It's being burned somewhere currently.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: It probably is being burned.
I know, whenever there's a school shooting, they go through a certain ritual.
First, shock.
Then grief, then blame.
Which goes from guns to, "We didn't have the ten commandments in the school." To TV, media and then you.

[ Cheers and applause ]

And --

Marilyn: At least I'm good at something.

Bill: Yeah, at least you're good at something.

[ Light laughter ]

And --
I don't even want to talk about that.
It's an old argument.
I mean, anyone who thinks that you're responsible really ought to spend more time with the kids themselves.
But what I do want to talk about --
and I've talked about it before on this show --
is I don't understand the hate that's in music today.
Not your music, but like, rap music.
Even girl bands.
I mean, the guys are all scrubs, the women are all bitches and hos.

[ Laughter ]

Kathy: Who's cheering? Who's cheering for the women being bitches and hos?

Bill: Apparently the women.
I heard a lot of squeals.

Kathy: Oh, great.
That's great that they buy into it.

Bill: But I mean, that is the message of the music nowadays.
I don't know where this hate --
when I was a kid, the music was all about love.
And now it's all about hate.
How did we get to this point?

Marilyn: I remember it being broads and dames, which I still use.

Bill: No, you don't.

Marilyn: I like broads and dames.

Kathy: In your Broadway collection --

Marilyn: Broads and dames.

Bill: Yeah, right.
Yeah, "Guys and Dolls" --

Marilyn: That was derogatory, though, broads and dames.

Bill: Yeah, I remember when you were in "Guys and Dolls" with Marlon Brando.

[ Light laughter ]

Kathy: Remember?

Marilyn: I had a small part.

Bill: You'd like to get back to Broadway.
No, but if you watch any video, I mean, the message is sort of that, you know, bitches is all hos and that sex is something that you grab from a manipulative bitch before she tries to get something off of you.
And if you want sex, what you really do is have a lot of stuff that the bitches want, like a big house and a pool and a big diamond-encrusted crucifix.

Kathy: Right.

Marilyn: That pretty much sums it up.

Kathy: And they want you to have those Benjamins.
Girls apparently love Benjamin.

[ Screams and applause ]

No, don't! I was being ironic.
Stop it!

Daril: As you can probably tell --

Marilyn: I think you've got it in a nutshell there.

Daril: As you can probably tell by the audience's applause, I mean, a lot of the people in society, this is how they feel towards each other, especially, you know, when men, you know, consider girls these kind of words.
The reason why is because, you know, it's that rivalry they have towards each other, and the females, they consider guys, you know, dogs.
All due to the fact that, you know, they may have been treated, I guess, rudely or maybe have been dumped by another male, and so what they do is --
this is all in society.
So what the music does, they take what they see in society and then they just give the people what they want to see.
Obviously, they're applauding, right?

Bill: Yeah.

[ Applause ]

My question is why? How did it get to this place? I know you're young, so you don't know that it didn't always used to be this way.

Daril: Oh yes, I do, believe me.

Bill: But you know, it used to be, you know, "Love Grows Where My Rosemary Goes."
[ Kathy groans ]

How many remember that one?
[ Silence ]

Okay, uh --
"Birds suddenly appear every time you walk near."

Marilyn: The woman's supposed to be the cook in the kitchen and the whore in the bedroom.
That's what my mom taught me.

Kathy: Well, that's real nice.
Real nice, Marilyn.
You're grounded.

[ Light laughter ]

I think a lot of it, unfortunately is the culture of cool.
And the thing that's upsetting is, it was just a few years ago that latifah was singing that song, "Who You Callin' a Bitch?" And that was cool.
Only now, somehow, with, you know, like, Master P and DMX, it's really cool, "Oh, it'd be so cool if I could get one of these rough riders to bend me over and stick it up my butt until I'm crying.
That's so cool!"
[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: Right.
What are you applauding?
[ Light laughter ]

What is wrong with you people?

Kathy: They don't know.
They're nervous.

Marilyn: There's nothing wrong with a little anal sex, but just the way it's presented.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Kathy: I --

Bill: Oh, what a bunch of posers you are! Like you've had anal sex!
[ Cheers and applause ]

Kathy: Someone's saying, "Whoo! I have! I'm so sore, it's great! Whoo-hoo!" No!

Marilyn: No, but, it can work for Britney because she's supposedly a virgin, but we don't know.
Anal doesn't count.
I've read it.

[ Applause ]

I read that somewhere.

Kathy: Well, Catherine, who do you idolize? What teen pop idol girls do you think are cool?

Catherine: Well, I don't think any of them are really that cool.
I think --
they kind of repulse me.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Like, that's just in hip-hop, where the men degrade the women and the women degrade the men.
I mean, if you talk about like, Sarah McLachlan or Dido, they don't sing that kind of stuff.
And even Backstreet Boys, 'N Sync, like, "This I Promise You" is not about degrading girls.

Bill: Yeah, but they stink.

[ Laughter ]

Kathy: Okay.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Marilyn: What about degrading cross-dressing men?

Bill: Cross-dressing men?

Marilyn: How do I fit into this?
[ Light laughter ]

Should I be offended when someone says, "Bitch"?

Bill: You don't fit in, and that's what so great about you is that --

Marilyn: Do they mean me?

Bill: No, they don't.

Marilyn: Am I the dog? Am I the bitch?

Kathy: I think people with one fake blue eye are persecuted --

Bill: You could sing the songs to yourself.
You could sing it to yourself.
"Hey, you bitch, you scrub, who you talking to?"
[ Laughter ]

All right.
I gotta take a commercial.
We'll be right back.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Announcer: Join us next week on "Politically Incorrect," when Bill's guests will include "Monty Python's" Eric Idle, the original Mrs. C. Marion Ross, actor Tom Arnold and actress June Lockhart.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: All right.
There's "Holywood." I found it.
It's hard to live with that sound.
But listen, we have a very diverse panel here.
We have Black, White, Asian, Manson.

[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

Since we have this diversity, I want to ask you this because --
the media sort of presents this image that race is over in America as an issue.
If you watch lots of TV shows, lots of movies, there's lots of interracial dating.
It doesn't even matter anymore.
What's that movie --
the dancing movie?

Kathy: "Save the Last Dance."

Bill: "Save the Last Dance" --
you know, "it's just not an issue anymore." But I wonder if that's true.
I mean, I would think if you're in a high school, the black kids --

Marilyn: I was thinking about this today.
I've seen --
my problem is that it's become a cliche now.
It's like a marketing thing.
But they gotta take it to the next level.
We need something more extreme.
We need like, the black panther militant woman who falls in love with the Grand Dragon of the KKK and it could be --

[ Laughter ]

Kathy: Yeah.

Marilyn: --
"Crouching Panther, Hidden Dragon," you know?
[ Laughter ]

Or Americans dating Canadians.

Kathy: What?!

Bill: That's radical.
That's very, very radical.
That'll never happen.

[ Light laughter ]

Marilyn: Cats [ bleep ] dogs, whatever it takes.

Kathy: Okay.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Daril: Well, basically, I mean --

Bill: He's got the kids wrapped around his finger.

Daril: Well, I see it all the time.
I mean, I go to a very diverse school.
We have Asians, Latinos, you know, Blacks, Somalians, all that, and --

Bill: Somalians?

Daril: Right, Somalians.

Kathy: You go to Somalian High, right?

Daril: Ain't nothing funny about that.
Ain't nothing --

Bill: They're black, right?

Daril: But what I'm saying is, it's not unusual to see an Asian going out with a Mexican or a black person going out with a white person.
It's just not.

Kathy: I think that's in the cities.
I mean, I'm from Chicago, and when I was in high school 20 years ago, there were black kids and white kids dating, but I think in rural areas, you're still gonna find people that have never met a gay person, or they're never met a black person or, "I think I've never met a black person," and really they have.

[ Light laughter ]

Marilyn: Or, they've met Michael Jackson.

Kathy: Then you don't know.

Bill: Yeah, it's kind of hard to say --
I know, what is --

Marilyn: But you know what? This is not the same show, but you could have a little love connection right here.

Catherine: Well, I go to school in New York City and it's really, really racist there.

Bill: New York City? New York City, the seat of liberalism in America, is really racist?

Catherine: Yeah, it's really racist, and my school is, like, half Jewish and half Asian and then there's like, a couple of Blacks and like, the Whites --
the Whites, the Blacks and then the Asians, we're like the Asian party, and like, we're all really angry at each other and yet --

Bill: Why?

Catherine: I'm not really sure why, but I remember there was this race conference --

Bill: You're angry at the Blacks?

Catherine: Well, we're just angry at each other because we say that like, the other cliques are like, taking over the school because everything is divided into racial cliques in my school.
It's not like a jock hierarchy with like, the jocks and the preps.
But, it's more like --

Bill: Who does better academically?

Catherine: The Asians, and then the Blacks get mad because --

[ Light laughter ]

Bill: Whoa, whoa, whoa --

Kathy: Whoa, hold it.
No, no! Let her talk!

Bill: Let her talk.

Daril: Let her say what she has to say.

Catherine: I mean, that's the way it is.
I mean, like, maybe it's just because there's more of us so it seems like --

Daril: And calculators.

Catherine: --
when we succeed, like, there's like, so many of us it's like so obvious.
And that's why they are so angry.

Bill: Are you saying they're angry because you do better?

Catherine: Yeah, because my school is, like, academically gifted.
You have to take an entry exam to get in and that kind of thing.

Kathy: But she also said everyone's angry at everyone's different race, right? It's not like, just two angry black guys and then all you of doing really well.

[ Laughter ]

That's a school you don't wanna go to.
That's uncomfortable.

Catherine: We just respond --

Bill: But the Asians --
even when I was in school, the Asians did better in math.
They just did.
They were just better in math and science, and we kind of, like, resented them for that, too.
And we were white.

[ Light laughter ]

So it's like whoever excels in America, there's a kind of a like, "Ungh! Why are you better?"

Catherine: But despite the resentment, we all think, like, interracial relationships are cool.
There's a lot of like, Blacks dating Whites in my school for some reason and, like, Mexicans and Chinese people and that kind of thing.
And it's kind of strange because, like, we did an article in the school newspaper about this and they had a survey.
And 98% of the people thought interracial relationships were fine and they had no problem with that, yet on a daily basis you can't make friends with the black people.
Like, I can't --
I don't have any white friends.
They're very few.

Marilyn: That's kind of what I was joking about earlier is that, to me, it's become fashionable because of these TV shows.
It's become a cliche.
And I think it's kind of insulting to both races that it becomes some sort of a new reason to sell a T-shirt of some sort.
You know?

Bill: Yeah.
And rock stars like yourself --
you mentioned Michael Jackson --
seem to have superseded race by becoming a color no one has ever seen.

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ]

I mean --
I mean --

Kathy: And there's only one of him, so it's not like there's oppression against whatever he is.
Because there's only one of him.

Marilyn: I used to like to say I'm the white Michael Jackson, but now it doesn't make sense anymore.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: Why did he --
it's so sad.
I mean, he was such a great-looking guy at one point, after his first operation.
Remember his first, like in '79 --
you don't remember, but --

Kathy: You mean the early incarnations of the nose.

Bill: Like, right --
the first --
he just should have stopped at one, and then he became an elderly white woman.
It's just --

Kathy: I know.

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ]

Bill: Right? And I'm a fan of his.
I've never done Michael Jackson jokes about little boys, 'cause I don't know if it's true.

Marilyn: "Off the Wall" is a great record.
I listen to it all the time.

Kathy: But he is --
he is off the wall.
He's crazy.

Marilyn: "You Wanna be Startin' Somethin'," you know?

Bill: He's just bleached.

[ Light laughter ]

I don't know if he's crazy.

Marilyn: I credit most of my stage moves to the choreography in "Thriller."
[ Light laughter ]

Kathy: So when you moonwalk, you look back to the early days of Michael Jackson.

Marilyn: Absolutely.

Kathy: I know.

Bill: I have to take a commercial.
Stay right here.

[ Applause ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: Okay.
We got a few minutes here.
I've been kind of rough on mtv all week, I think with good reason.
I know you have a show on mtv, and you certainly have your videos on mtv.
But they kind of promoted my view of --
I call it "Mt values," get it? M-t-v-Al --

Kathy: Got it.

Bill: Anyway, they kind of promote wealth, physical perfection and self-absorption as the values that kids ascribe to, and they don't seem to have a parent in the House nowadays to sort of counterweigh that view.

Kathy: Well, they don't even have other kids to counterweigh that view.
That's what's a shame.
You know, they have the character cartoon of daria, who is the only girl who's sort of atypical on that whole channel.

Bill: Right.

Kathy: So I'm not saying --
I don't mean to get Dr. Laura on you, "I don't think you need the parents" --
but there are other kids in high school that do not look like Christina aguilera.
There's whole schools full of girls that have real boobs!
[ Cheers and applause ]

Marilyn: And my message is that I'm as ugly as God makes them and girls still want to have sex with me.

[ Cheers and applause ]

So people really win on mtv.

Bill: Yeah, but the message is --

[ Bill chuckles ]

But you have to be a rock star first.

Kathy: Yeah, right.

Bill: That little clause there, the little fine print.
You can get laid if you're ugly and a rock star, it's like at the bottom --

[ Light laughter ]

Marilyn: I try to promote a different approach of beauty.

Bill: Yes.
Oh, yes.

Marilyn: You know? And if all of what you're saying is bad --
what mtv promotes about wealth and all that --
well, then I guess what I do is good because of course, you know, I promote devil worship, violence and drugs.

[ Cheers and applause ]

So what could be so bad? But I try --

Bill: It is an alternative.

Marilyn: I really --
I think that my fans, in all seriousness, understand that --
stop trying to fit into other people's standards.

Bill: That is the message.

Marilyn: And you don't have to be --
you can be pretty on your own terms.

Bill: I agree.
I would say the same thing with eminem --

[ Cheers and applause ]

You and eminem get more crap than anybody else --

[ Applause ]

Kathy: Eminem wouldn't be nearly as popular if he wasn't a cute, little white guy.
You know what I mean? He's a cute guy.
He's very sort of unassuming --

Marilyn: He's smart, though, too.

Bill: He's smart.

Kathy: He's smart.
He's a good writer, but I'm just saying, it's not hurting his popularity that he's a cute blonde kid, you know, guy.

Bill: Okay.
Well, it'll hurt my popularity if I don't take a break.

[ Applause ]

[ Applause ]

Bill: All right.
Monday, we have Marion Ross --
well, I guess teen week is over --
Beth Littleford and representative Jack Kingston and Rodney Crowell.
Now, apologize to China? You say yes?

Daril: Yes, I believe so.
I mean, to me, it's like a childish matter.
You know how you get taught by your parents --

Bill: But it's not our fault!

Daril: Let me finish.

Bill: Does it matter if it's our fault.

Daril: Let me finish --

Bill: Well --

Daril: Let me finish.
You get taught by your parent to just apologize.
I mean, it's real basic, just apologize, it's done.

Bill: If it's not your fault, you still apologize?

Daril: It's over.
It's over.
It's over.
It's done.

Bill: Well, actually, the show is done.

Marilyn: Chinese food in the green room.

Bill: "Holywood," Marilyn Manson's record.
Chinese food in the green room.

[ Cheers and applause ]